My Story: The Finale

TRIGGER WARNING: We share the raw truth that can show up in our lives and how suicidal ideations can so easily become overwhelming in the latter part of this story.

The scariest problems are often the quiet ones, the ones that look like a normal life from the outside and feel like you are drowning on the inside. Heather and Sean close out the final chapter of their story with the kind of honesty that makes you sit up straight: anger at God, family stress, a house with no furniture, COVID hitting at the worst time, and the ongoing work of building a blended family where everyone feels safe, seen, and loved.

Together, they unpack what it really means to live through struggle rather than just survive it, and how obedience, connection, and faith can lead to healing in ways we never expect. This episode isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about the testimony found in the middle of the mess and the realization that freedom isn’t something you arrive at, but something you choose every single day.

If you’ve ever questioned your path, wrestled with your faith, or wondered if anything good could come from what you’ve been through, this conversation is an invitation to see your story differently. What if everything you’ve walked through is not the end of your story, but the very thing leading you into your freedom?

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Transcript

Anger At God And Hard Lessons

COVID Chaos In A Bare House

Heather 0:02

Hello friends and welcome back to The Free Advantage. I'm your host, Heather Davis, and I want to invite you into a new season of Real Stories, Real Recovery, and Real Freedom. This show has always been about self-discovery, authenticity, and recovering a life of freedom. And this year, we are taking that journey together in a deeper way. You're gonna hear raw, honest conversations with people walking this path in real time. Stories of growth, healing, purpose, and becoming whole. You'll also hear from me as I reflect on these themes that rise from the stories, answer your questions, and offer small, meaningful takeaways that you can carry back into your week. This is not just a podcast you listen to, it's a place you belong where you are part of the conversation. Welcome back, everybody. Today is the conclusion of my story. If you have been listening in over the past few weeks, then you have got to hear it from the beginning, and now you will be here through the end. Uh last week I had my husband Sean come on and join me. I really wanted him to be a part of the conclusion of it because he really kind of helped bring it all together for me and you can really hear the dynamic of it all with the two of us. And I'm very excited. Um, I hope that you enjoy it. I hope that you have learned something, I hope that you have had any kind of inspiration or maybe found some hope that no matter what you've been through, um, that somehow you can come out on the other side of it. Um I last week we kind of had a part one and this is part two of that. So you're gonna step right into the middle of our conversation. Um but yeah, I'm excited and I'm really glad that you all listened in, that you joined me and you helped let me be vulnerable and let me be a part of this with you guys and let me express it. Um so pull up a seat, grab something to drink. I'll see you inside. So yeah, that was it was a tough time. I think for me, I gave you such a hard time because I was so angry about it. I wasn't angry with you, I was angry with God and like why? Why would you why? You know, I personally feel like I've been through a lot, and so like why why would there be more that I needed to go through? But that is not life, right? You you you don't just because you've been through things doesn't mean there's not more to go through, there's not more to deal with, and you know, at the time it is it was very hard for me to accept, even though I knew in my spirit that it was the truth. And I and I'm sorry, you know, we've talked about it, giving you such a hard time about it, but it was um it was something I had to walk through too, and I think that we had to walk through together, you know, it brought us together, it brought us closer together, and you know, and we got there and we started moving on. You were in the process of changing jobs again. You'd had even a a better opportunity come available um and you were very excited about it. You were just finishing coming off the end of writing a book with a uh with a bunch of you know people that you collaborated with um and you had gone to New York for the opening and the release of this book. You were very excited about. You had come home. Ana was actually visiting for Mother's Day weekend. You know, we're preparing for Andrew to be here soon, but um, all of this was just in the first like couple like month and a half, and you had come back and you had got you brought COVID home.

Sean 3:48

And man went to New York for the first time, got featured on the side of the New York Stock Exchange for the release of our book in our community, and then literally the next day, because it was like a one-day event thing, I come home and then I bring the thing we had dodged successfully.

Heather 4:07

This whole time, this whole time, and was so mad we had been very grateful and very blessed that we had not had COVID, none of us had, and then you came home, you gave it to me, and you gave it to Ana, and you had it. So I'm like, oh great, now all three of us quarantined during COVID together, and now none of us had gotten it, and now we we all have it together. So it just but what's crazy is that because we had moved into this place, we did not bring uh hardly like we had all of this like stuff, but we didn't have any furniture or anything to put it on, right?

Sean 4:39

So we We had to sell all the furniture to fit everything in the bed.

Heather 4:42

So we had got a little storage unit where we put some things, and then I remember you're sick with COVID, and I hadn't gotten sick yet. So I was like, okay, I'm quarantining you in the bedroom, but there's nowhere to lay. No, there's no because there's no couch and everything in Florida is tile. Like there's no comfortable anything. So I remember like we had bought the couch we're actually sitting on now, and it had finally come like two days later, and I'm trying to put it together because it's like a just comes in a bunch of bottles modular. So I'm trying to put together, I can't. I'm like, get up. Like he's sicker than a dog. He's got like 103 fever, and I'm like, you have to help me put this couch together because I have nowhere else to lay. And it was it was a it was a mess, right? You had you did, you went back, laid down. I got sick.

Sean 5:28

What a roller coaster.

Andrew Moves In And Starts Healing

Heather 5:29

It was wild, right? So we we, you know, the even after all of this, the first couple of months there, we were really going through it even with ourselves during that time. And then eventually we got better, right? COVID didn't last forever, and um, and then Andrew came. Yep. And once Andrew came, it was honestly, I was so happy, and I know you were too. We enjoyed him so much being with us. Um, you know, I was like out of all of the kids, like we would just love for him to just be with us all the time. Um especially during that time, right?

Sean 6:04

Now well, I think for me, there's something really special about when you can create a space for your children to heal from something, right? I would say if I look at the theme of of our lives, like creating space is a big part of that and all the things that we do. And when Andrew came, I don't uh we were excited for him to be there, but I don't think we were we were prepared for what he was bringing with him. No, we were not trusting. Because we didn't know, we didn't understand at the time, and not yet, and being able to make the space for him to feel all the feels, and Andrew has lots of feels, which I I it's one of my favorite things about him, right? Is that like he is very transparent about how you feel. You never question where you stand with Andrew, and I love that as a Gemini. That that really like that's great for me. And watching him be able to decompress from what he had lived through his whole life and these struggles and stuff that he had, and he could be who he really was unabashedly when he was not having good days and when he was having good days, just watching him be able to come out from under that, and then that leading to him finding a passion and really diving into that passion, and I think that was a gift that God had given him. To you know, he's so talented with a lot of every child we have is ridiculously talented, makes me feel like I'm like, what did I do with my life, right? Um, and to watch him make music and how he got his emotions out. Like, one, he's a great lyricist, but two, there's something about the gifting he has that he can take what he feels inside and put it into words that any human being, no matter the life that you've lived, you relate to that moment at some moment in your life of what he's feeling in that time, and it just grounds you into being like, yeah, like you're always asking yourself why. I remember when his first song came out, he wrote his first song, and he's like, I'm standing out on the pier and he wants me to listen to it, and he's like, Is it any good? And I'm just I'm folding in on myself at how incredible and how deep it is. And I'm thinking, this is the beginning of you working in a gifting that is so great, it's undeniable, right? It's not about just being good at creating music or producing music, but it's like if you you connect to this, right? The way that you if you connect to anything in your life, the way you connect to this, like the success you're going to find and the fulfillment that you will find from the things that you do will be so far beyond anything you could ever imagine, right? Like it was crazy to watch him finally operate in something that he connected with truly.

Heather 8:57

It it was I you know, when Andrew came, we knew he had talked some about there being struggles at home that he was struggling with his father. And we did we did not know the depth of what that looked like until he came home and he stayed with us. And then slowly as he starts to open up and release some of those things to us, like it for me as a mom, it broke my heart. I, you know, I I know that in the past, y'all have heard my story, like that I've had such deep-seated regret around the things that have happened with my children and around, you know, what happened with Andrew and how like he ended up with his father and and not with me, and then all of the ins and outs of what that have has looked like over the years, and then trying to get him to come and stay with us, trying to to convince him like that this is where it would be better, and and him choosing to stay where he was. And now that he's here living with us at this point, him explaining why he did all of these things, right? And some of it was because he was trying to make his dad okay. He was like, he, you know, there's one thing about it is when your son looks at you and he's like, Because I knew that you were gonna be okay without me, but I knew my dad wasn't. And that was hard, and that he stayed there in spite of how his dad was treating him and how the things were happening for him at that time until Andrew had dove into his education since he was like in fifth grade. Like it just it he what we now know was his escape, right? He's like, I escaped into my education, I escaped into my knowledge and my learning and in and into math and science and the stars. Like Andrew wanted to be a physicist, an astrophysicist, like it was his dream. Like the stars and the sky is his it's his everything. And he's so smart, he's so intelligent, and he's so passionate about it, and he's extremely knowledgeable about it. Um so when he walked away from that that was crazy, it it taught it it triggered like okay, something something egregious is happened with him and him coming and learning that it's it's the pressure, right? And that's what he talks about a lot. It's the pressure on him to um to perform in a way that somebody else wants you to perform. Like Andrew has done everything right. Like if you look at a kid, you're just like, oh, he's like the perfect child. He goes to school, he studies, you know, he didn't focus too much on friends. He didn't, I mean, he didn't even have a girlfriend until he was like 18 years old. So like he, it was all of these things. He's like, go to school, go to college, work hard. It's all he did. And then on top of it, when he went to school, he finally got into college, he was traveling, commuting two hours one way and two hours back, and that's four hours of your day. That's without traffic, right? And then he's working a full-time job on a full-time physics degree, right? Um, you know, where he's majoring in physics, like it's impossible. And they told him that even when he went to school, like, this is impossible. You know, he was supposed to be living on campus, and then, you know, the the rearranging of things so you know they didn't have to pay for certain things, it became too much for him. And it did not set him up for success. He truly was set up for failure. And when he did, he fell apart. And so when he came to us, that's that's how we got him. You know, we found him in this space and him trying to recoup and not feeling all of this guilt and regret on himself for his decisions that he had made over the past few years. And I'm like, and he's still a kid.

Sean 12:53

Oh yes, right?

Stepfatherhood Without Legal Power

Heather 12:54

You're still a baby, he's 20 years old at this point, and I'm like just getting started. But yeah, you're just getting started. There's so much pressure on you, and like you said, giving him that space to heal, to reconcile with himself, to express himself because he that wasn't he wasn't living in a place where that was allowed to happen before. And Andrew has always been since he was very little, very little. I mean, toddler was always writing songs. He used to write songs for me all the time and he sing in the shower. Sing in the shower. He he was always that way, and he always was very gifted musically, right? You know, uh my brother had bought him a guitar when he was like 15, and Andrew taught himself how to play. He's a phenomenal guitarist. That's crazy, you know, and he sings and he writes, he plays the piano. And when he had chose to do go to school for physics, it was one of the things that I was worried about because I had talked to him and I said, like, I don't want you to lose this part of yourself. I don't want you to lose that music part of yourself. Of course, we c I come from a family of musicians, we're all musicians, you're a musician, so it it's not a part of him I want him to lose because it is the part that really he connects with himself with. And when you're it in dealing with science and physics and stuff, it's very consuming and doesn't leave a lot of room for stuff. So I really wanted to make sure he didn't lose that. And I know that he did get away from that a lot when he was in school. So when he came back, like we really encouraged him to lean into it, like lean into this, give yourself the time and space. There's no need for you to go anywhere, there's no need for you to do anything, just be right now. And uh, and you know, and he he tinkered a little bit, you know, he wasn't really that much into it, but you know, your birthday had come around.

Sean 14:44

Oh my god. Right.

Heather 14:45

So it was your 40th birthday. Um, and I was like, hey, Andrew and I used to go to the grocery store around four o'clock every day um to get food for the night um when we were in Tampa. As one in Florida does, as one in Florida does, right? Because you don't have a lot of space, so you go every day to get your food and lifestyle is very differently there. And I'm leaning in and trying to learn the ways. And so Andrew and I would go in and we we were talking in the car, and I said, Hey, you know, what if we did like we wrote a little song or like a little rap for you know, Sean for his birthday? And Andrew was uninterested. He was like, No. And I'm like, come on, it'll be really fun. And so I start throwing some things out there, and I mean, he was appalled at me. Andrew was like, Wow, that's awful. And I'm like, Oh, if you can do better, and he's like, I can do better. And then I'm like, then do it. And he's like, No. So I'm like, you're no fun. So we get in, we unload the groceries, whatever, and he goes to his room. And later that night, Andrew comes out and he's like, Hey, come here, I need you to hear this. So I go in his room and he has written an entire rap for your birthday. And I'm like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me. And I'm like, You didn't even use any of my lines. And he was like, No. And I'm like, you have to use at least one of my lines because then we didn't do it. And he was like, Okay. So he like my line in there, which to this day he hates.

Sean 16:16

He used you as like the the physical act, you were the physical actor of his music. Because you were the one that was like all into the dancing and doing stuff or whatever, whenever y'all actually did it. He just kind of was like, I'm just gonna put this on.

Heather 16:30

Well, what's funny because it was the day before your birthday. Like we it was quick, it was like a fast thing. So what was funny is Andrew's like, okay, look, here's the lyrics. He taught it to me. It was short, it was small or whatever. And then I was like, Okay, well, we're gonna like dress up and we're gonna go out there and we're gonna perform it for your birthday, which we did was hilarious. It went off very well. Sean loved it.

Sean 16:51

Awesome. Greatest birthday president. It was the greatest present.

Heather 16:55

And and then Andrew's like, okay, wait, I got another gift. And we're like, okay. And then he brings it out and he plugs it up and he plays it. And much to my dismay, um, he has taken this, written way more lyrics to this song, and he has recorded it and produced it in his bedroom overnight.

Sean 17:18

That's crazy.

Heather 17:20

And then he presents it to you for his birthday, which makes me it was really awesome. But then I was like, wow, it just well, he let you have it. But it it was great, and it was it was really awesome because from that point forward, Andrew was writing music like that. It was every day he was turning over something new.

Sean 17:40

I was honored to be the first real song, right?

Heather 17:43

Yeah, right. It was wild, it was such a cool thing, and you know, and now Andrew writes Sean birthday songs every year.

Sean 17:51

That's what I look forward to or whatever it is like.

Heather 17:54

I'm not gonna lie.

Sean 17:54

And they just keep getting better. He's got that one from that one year, right? That's just like it's always been the peak for us, is like, how are you ever gonna top this? He does great music or whatever, but I don't know, it's the hook with that one.

Heather 18:07

It is so Andre Andrew really was starting to lean into his music during that time and expressing how he was feeling. So that whole, that whole like first, like his first like EP during that year was really just him expressing and going through the emotions and healing from all the stuff that he had been dealing with. It was powerful. To me, it's his best work, right? He was like, oh mom, that's so old news. It's so bad, right? Because, you know, now Andrew, you know, he from our house, he went into college, he went to full cell university. Now he is a full-blown uh recording like producer and master, like he does all the things, and you know, and now he's trained and knows exactly what he's doing, and his work is phenomenal, right? I mean, he is my producer of my podcast, he does phenomenal work. So it's to watch him having grown from that to this in this space, he's taken such a huge turn from physics, even though it still holds that special place in his heart. But it this whole time during them was just a special and wonderful time to have with him. And I it was something I thank God for every single day, is that out of all of the things that have happened, out of all the time that I lost, out of all the time that I've given up, that I had gotten that such special time with him, and in a time where he truly needed, he truly needed me, and I was in a place where I truly could be there for him, and to have you there for him as well was like having a father figure that showed him something different than what he has always known and what could be possible, the connection, the love, the sharing. It was something that you just you can't you can't you can't make it up, you can't forge that any other way.

PTSD Anxiety And Finding Help

Sean 19:56

In the way it was a pretty pivotal moment for me and him and our relationship, because I'd always struggled, like each of my children is a different scenario, right? Like Austin was my first, like always my first. Um and then Ana was like from another family, so different type of adoption, right? And then Andrew was the one that I didn't adopt, right? And struggling to understand the dynamics, if you've ever adopted children or you've never had your own children, like every one of my children is a different scenario. So not having that experience was never taught growing up, like you know, you're always like, oh, you find a woman, you get married, you have kids, you build a life, right? And I'm like, I found a woman, there were already a bunch of kids, and I was going to have different relationships, and then more kids were going to come, and I was going to have entirely different relationships with them. It was very difficult for me to navigate because I didn't I didn't know how to treat each child differently, but the love that I had was the same for all of them, but I wanted unique connections with each of them so that they knew that the the relationship that I had with them was special and different, right? Because kids are always trying to compete. Oh yeah. And they're always, they're always gonna find like, oh, I'm the favorite.

Heather 21:21

I'm the favorite, no, I'm the favorite.

Suicidal Thoughts And Work Burnout

Sean 21:22

You know, and it was kind of like I never saw my relationships that way. It was like I had different relationships with each of my children that were based on different aspects of my life or different parts of myself that they all got, and the relationships were very different and unique. I had conversations with one that I didn't have with the other, right? Like I had experiences with one where it's like you could just be in the presence, right? And with Andrew, it was always difficult because it was frustrating to be a parent of a child that you love so much, but be entirely powerless for, right? I had no legal obligations. I had no legal liabilities or anything. Like, I can't make him do something. I can't teach him. Like he could just be looking at me as like, you're not my dad, and then just go about his life or whatever. And that's like the biggest fear of somebody who's trying to be a father figure because it's like you want to impose these ideals and these beliefs so that they consider them, right? I don't want you to adopt my stuff just because you do, but I want to give you exposure to it. Maybe impose is not the right word, but I want to give you exposure to it so that you consider that and all the other things that you have, right? I want to add, I want to be additive to your life. I want to know that because I was there, your life was better because I was there, or else why am I having a relationship, regardless? Right. And with Andrew, it was always very challenging because I didn't want to step on another man's feet, right? I didn't want to, I never want to replace another person. It's like with Ana, right? We're like, hey, even if you come over here, it's like I still want you to have this relationship if you can have this relationship, because it's important to me, right? Is that it's not a competition. It's it's more of like, what am I adding to your life? And with him, it was very difficult to do because one, we never got enough time that I can connect. I'm not a person that like I come in, I meet something. I'm not about shallow connection. I want the deep connection, but it has to come over a long period of time of those shared memories together. Um, and that was really hard for him. And then two, was that misnomer as a father who's only ever adopted, that like that relationship can't be as strong because you've not made this legal step to something, right? And it I it took a long time to really understand that. So we had a conversation in the car one day, and I was like, look, man, I'm just gonna pour this out for you because I don't know how else to say this. It's kind of like I love you like I've already adopted you, like you're my child. Always have. I don't want to replace your father or whatever, but I want to be a father to you, and I don't know how in the role that I have, right? And we talked about that, and you know, he shared his philosophy of what it's like to have a relationship with somebody else. And I'm like, I'm shocked because it's the exact same philosophy that I have about something. It's like, I don't care about your relationship, I don't care if you're blood or not or whatever. It's about how you treat me, it's about who you are and your presence in my life that makes the difference. Otherwise, the titles don't matter, the legality doesn't matter, or whatever else.

Heather 24:29

I mean, that's the truth.

Job Loss As An Answered Prayer

Sean 24:30

And I'm like, I'm happier than a lark because at the end of the day, I'm like, now I can be that way because this is what I value too. Like we found that common ground with it, and everything changed. It felt like almost overnight, like he really leaned into that, I leaned into that, and we found this new deeper relationship that I think both of us had wanted for a very long time, but didn't know how to navigate. And it was so pivotal, it was like a massive moment, just like what happened with Ginger, right? You were right, I didn't expect it either. I I thought, okay, well, you know, I didn't really want to have an animal the responsibility for the longest time. She just always really liked me, always wanted to be near me. And I was kind of like, okay, you know, I have to love this thing because it loves me or whatever, but like I had not had I had trauma around animals, had not had good experiences and lost animals, and I didn't want to lose any more things. And when I lost her, it devastated me in a way that I was not prepared for at the time. And it changed everything about like I will no longer go through this life ever refusing to love something with everything I have. And that's what prompted that conversation with Andrew. It's what prompted having a different relationship. And I look back now after our life together, and I look at the relationship I have with my children, and while it's still far from what I want, right, like I'm still working toward that, it's more fulfilling than it's ever been, all because of these little small moments of things we went through that had nothing to do with it. And when I look at, you know, all of the things God has moved us and all of the stories and these little pieces that you're sharing with your audience of stuff, I think at the time the purpose of why I was doing these things had nothing to do with what was being fulfilled. Right? It was about the obedience through those moments, not the doubt or acceptance of whatever was happening. But through that obedience, he opened doors to things that I would have never been able to encounter or have the experience of had it not happened. Right. Ginger was Ginger's death was one of the best and worst things that ever happened to me. And that took a long time to really land. Right. And I think about that with Andrew too. It's like, yeah, you didn't get him for a long time, but when you did, what he brought, how he changed our lives, and the part that we got to experience of his life, that small part of the life that it was so more impactful than just having your children around. Because a lot of times that's relegated to the not having memories. Like families are always going out and doing things with their kids so they have memories, but nobody's thinking about the just random moments where they're sitting on the couch doing nothing unless something profound happens. But with him, it was like every moment was something profound that was having making up all of that time. And I think what a wonderful gift.

Heather 27:12

It was, I think that for me, this listening to you talk about the kids, it is like it brings me to tears because I I've lived such a life with them before you. And then talking about you wanting to be so additive to somebody's life that I you will never know and understand what you have brought to our lives and that you have brought to our children. You have given them something that they have longed for their whole life. Even with the ones who have had their own families or own fathers in their lives, you have been able to bring in a different kind of fatherhood to them. And for those who didn't have fathers at all, you have been able to be that for them, that stability, that rock, that that constant care and connection for them. And even though you struggle to find your space in that, you truly do walk in that so well. You know, I I I get a little jealous sometimes because I'm like, you know, you walked in and my kids are like, oh, mom's out, you know, dad's in. And but I get it because you truly are such an incredible human being. And I don't know out of all the things in my life that I've endured why I deserved you, but we are so grateful that you are in our lives and that we get to experience life with you. And you have healed something that has been so broken and so disrupted in our lives that there's just there's no way to ever thank you or to or to thank God enough for bringing us together and bringing our family together, you know. I Andrew during this time he finally moves on, right? He he moved out, and that was hard in itself, but you know, he's Austin got married, um, you know, and now we we keep moving on into all these parts, and we find ourselves to where we are now. We got Ana is married, Austin's married, Andrew is now engaged, and looking at them thinking, wow, like wow, like wow, like we went from, you know, two to three to six of them, you know, and they're just really beautiful humans and they're doing such beautiful things in the world, and I don't think we could have done a better job. And sometimes I shake my head going, How did that happen? How did that happen? And you know, that truly is the grace and the mercy of God.

Sean 30:05

I know the answer.

Heather 30:06

And you know, I don't I could not have walked through any of this with anybody else other than you. So thanks. You're welcome.

Starting The Podcast By Accident

Sean 30:22

I feel the same way, though. I think all of you have restored many things in my life that have been lost that I was hopeless to ever get back. And though it didn't look like the traditional story I'd been taught growing up, I think that it's pretty awesome that the experience I had was better than any story I'd have ever been taught. Had I wanted to live the life of the story I'd been taught, I I think I'd have been underwhelmed with life. And God has never been one to underwhelm me in any experience I've had in my life. So I'm very grateful for that. Each of my children have brought something out of me that was not something I never shared with another human being. And then you have brought many things out of me, not only to help me make me grow, but like you create an environment in which when someone can be themselves, the things that they need to be just happen. Right. And I think that's probably one of the most beautiful things I've experienced being in this family was we never had to do anything, right? It wasn't like work to have to do any of these things or to cohabitate or to like pull these things out. I've always loved how everything just felt so natural. It felt like it's always been that way. And all of my kids, even in regards to how they are, everywhere we go, they think that mo most everybody thinks that my children are my children, that they look like me, they act like me. Um, you know, like I think people have a harder time believing they're your children than they do mine, especially after that one Christmas photo. Oh, but uh yeah, I think the feeling is very mutual, is that the restoration I've had in my life, I think parallels a lot of the hope that everyone else has had. And I think that's the beauty is God knows that we all need something different. So he brings each of us into each other's lives to provide those unique things.

Heather 32:20

Yeah. Yeah. Uh a thousand percent.

Sean 32:25

No, I may be getting you off topic. I tend to do that sometimes.

Heather 32:28

No, no, I don't think so at all. I think it was just we were really experiencing a lot of this during this time, having different moments with each of our children because they're growing, they're changing. You know, I if people have listened to Ana's story, she was going through a lot during that time and coming to her own like end of herself, you know. Andrew is is doing the same thing. They all were doing these different things, you know, and and you and I were the same. We being in Florida, we did have a lot of time even with ourselves, though Andrew was there, right? Like it our life changed dramatically when we moved out of Georgia. Yeah. And our relationship shifted a lot. You know, you things changed. There were a lot of wonderful things that happened, but there were a lot of really hard things that started happening because you had changed jobs. And though this job was really exciting, we're making more money, you're you're working from home, we're doing it's in on paper, it looks amazing. And but during this time, you were like silently struggling.

Sean 33:28

Yeah.

Losing Housing And Living On Air Mattress

Heather 33:28

And you're living in a world that that I don't understand and I don't understand what's going on with you. And I you started seeking out different things to try to help. Remember, you went and joined the uh the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Um, like, I don't know what it was. It was something you were doing for the veterans, right? Because um it was like a see if this would help therapy-wise at PTSD and things like that. And and you started struggling more and more. And I remember I could tell because you were smoking, right? And you were smoking incessantly. You got to the point where you started working outside just so you could smoke all the time and you started losing a lot of weight and and you were just increasingly getting more and more stressed, right? And as the next year came around, it was like 2023, like we you were, it was just you were working all the time. It was constant. I um was working on my stuff, I was working on creating a ton of stuff. I was writing all the time, I was coaching during this time, and so we were just doing a lot of different stuff. I remember when we finally had some friends of ours, um, there's artists, there were some good friends of ours, and they had recently moved also to Florida. From Georgia, from Georgia, and they had invited us to come visit them, and they were actually in Sarasota, um, which was probably about an hour from us. It wasn't too far. And we went and visited them and we started hanging out a lot there, and um, you were starting to do a little bit of work with them, and it was really exciting you too, like being able to be a part of something creative and not just so the doldrums of your day at the j the corporate job you were at. And they were kind of like pushing us and insisting, like, hey, y'all need to move so we're closer. We need to move so you're closer. And Andrew was fixing to move out, right? Because now he's starting college, and so he's fixing it, he had decided to go to full sale. And so we're getting him ready to move into there. And it was crazy, Karen, because we're like, okay, we'll do it, right? We had looked at maybe buying a home instead of renting in Florida, and that turned into a crazy situation.

Sean 35:33

Um that was wild.

Heather 35:36

We ended up not purchasing that house, thank God. And then we're like, okay, well, maybe we could move. Maybe we could move to Sarasota and be closer. Um, and life is a little more laid back. It means everything's laid back in Florida, but in Sarasota, it's way more laid back than it is in Tampa, right? It's less city scene. And so we're like, yeah, let's do it. So we decided, found a place there we were gonna move into. It was so crazy because as soon as we decided to move out of there, we're on our own again. Here comes Ana.

Sean 36:06

Yeah. So it's like every house we get a new child back.

Heather 36:10

Right. One leaves, one comes in, and something happens. Like the kids, that's the nature of the life that they were in. And so Ana was but they're out there trying.

Sean 36:19

Yeah, they're doing the thing. That's the important part. Because we do what we can to help them, but they got to get out and try to at least help themselves.

A Family Invite Back To Texas

Heather 36:25

So her and her boyfriend at the time had come and stayed with us. And boy, was that challenging because he was a struggle, right? That this would this had been a person that she had been in a relationship and and out of a relationship with that we did not condone. We didn't, we were not happy about, but you know, she's making her choices. So we're trying to support her the best we can and giving her the best advice that we can while still supporting the decision she's making. You know, they're trying to figure it out and and do things on their own. They had been in Georgia, they had moved to Florida, then they lost their place there, so now they're back with us. And I'm like, okay. So we're moving again and we're in a new home with a new kid and her boyfriend, and it was just like whatever. Now, right on the heels of this, it's like watching to me, it was to me, it's like watching a train wreck that has not happened yet. It's like watching, like you know it's coming, but you don't know when and you don't know how bad it's gonna be. But with you, it was it was really, I could tell because you start, there's a specific way that you start behaving when you start getting really, really stressed. And I could see it building up. And you were doing some work with our friends. I started working with them and doing some things, and that was fun, and we were having a lot of you know good times with that, but like you're still like having all these issues, and I still really don't understand what's going on because you know, you don't talk about certain things, right? You don't like to share a lot of stuff, especially during that time, and you really were what I call struggling with your leadership in your job. And you know, you have your personal, like you have a lot of morals and ethics, and you have a vision on who you are and who you want to be and the work that you do, no matter what you're doing and where you're at, and things were just not jiving for you in that way there. And so you started pushing back a lot at work, and when that happened, it didn't go well. It didn't go well, and you ended up losing your job, and it was just like I I don't know. I mean, you'd lost a job before, but this was huge, it was a huge hit. Um, you know, we've moved and we're in this home, and it was not cheap in Sarasota to live. We have people living with us, and we're trying to figure out okay, like what are we gonna do? And you're just like, well, I'm gonna find another job. I remember you had started looking and started looking, and then nothing was working, nothing was happening, nothing was happening, but you were it was weird because you were so much better once you had gotten fired. Like I did not realize, I did not realize that a lot of the stress that I was seeing come from you was because of your job. And I'd like you to talk just a little bit about that because I can't really I can't do it justice like you can.

Sean 39:43

Okay. Um, you know, to go forward, I think I gotta go back a little bit because as I'm listening to you tell this story, I'm like, oh well, you know, we're both living our own separate lives while we're living a life together. And I was I was struggling with a lot. So we got to we got to Florida, and as you said, the lifestyle was very different, right? And it forces you out into a lot of things. And I started finding that, like from a work perspective, I was excited because I was moving into a new opportunity. I was working with somebody I had met and known from my previous job that had invited me over to this job or whatever, because we got along really well. We saw eye to eye on how to execute things, right? And we're very much like just get it done kind of people. Um, but he gave me the space to allow me to be the humanitarian in the approach that I have for leadership. But when we first got to Florida, I started experiencing anxiety because you changed in wanting to go out more and to do things because that's the lifestyle there. Like people don't set in their home. You're not a hermit in Florida unless you're already post-retired, and that's what you've always been your entire life. Otherwise, you're going out places you want to go to the bars or you go out on the water or you go out and do things because you can't live in Florida and there not be a million things to do. Yeah, right.

Heather 41:07

And we had lived that. You don't even gotta go far.

Sean 41:09

Yeah, you don't even have to go very far. And in Georgia, we just lived in our house. We never went and did anything, we never went out anywhere. And this started to well up an anxiety I had from like I you can relate it to PTSD or whatever, like I'll be the stubborn Marine here, former Marine, where I had always avoided going out into public places in places like that, especially places that had alcohol. Um, I had this, I won't say it's an irrational fear, but I had a founded fear that given some of the experience that I had and things I did in my military service, that I was always afraid that if we got into a situation where you're just around a bunch of drunk people or whatever, and somebody was to do something to disrespect you or hurt you or whatever else, like I didn't want to be a liable for what might happen or my behavior of that because I had certain training and it's just responsive. It's and it's always a fear that I had, right? Like you don't know what you're capable of, and then when you know what you're capable of, you live in fear of like not being able to always control that because it's a response, it's not a thought that you're making a deliberate action to. And I was like, I'll just avoid this entirely. And it hurt our relationship a lot, most of our lives, because we couldn't go out and do anything. But everything in our life was perpetuating toward going out more and mind you.

Heather 42:34

We're not living in bars.

Sean 42:35

Like, it's just we're going out and everything you do is it's around tons of people and everyone's drinking everywhere you go, like just people walking down the street or having a drink. You either exercise a lot or you're drinking a lot rather because that's the relaxed lifestyle that Florida is. It's I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing, it's not good for alcoholics, but you know, we didn't have that problem. But I was still just worried about being in a situation. And I had trauma from past relationships where, you know, like just wanted to avoid it altogether. And, you know, I had started experiencing this so much that it's like I didn't want it to be a hindrance anymore. I started seeking help. And in that help, I had found this USF study that was going on that helped veterans with PTSD by doing either yoga or BJJ. When you apply for it, it was like you didn't get to pick. You could tell them you had a preference for something, but they just put you in whatever because it was a double-blind study. But you had to go and talk to somebody about the experiences you had and why, because what they're trying to do is help alleviate people to have PTSD to show this may be a valid way to be able to help you work through some of that. So I went and did the interview, and you know, they were like, Yeah, you're a really great candidate for this stuff. Uh, what do you want to do? And I was like, Well, I'd prefer to do the BJJ. And they're like, Oh, that program's already full. We're gonna put you in yoga to start out with. And I'm like, Okay, well, I mean, it is what it is, and I'm here in the study, you do it for eight weeks, they test. Some stuff, and then you know you're supposed to be done. So I started with the yoga stuff, and then like right afterwards, they offered the BJJ as well. And they're like, Would you be interested in doing both? No, I think it was the other way around that did BJJ and then they offered the yoga to do both. Either way, it was like immediately after I started.

Heather 44:19

You did both.

Healing Through Exploration And Work

Sean 44:19

They're wanting me to do both or whatever. And I'm like, I'm that off the charts, apparently. So I started doing it and I really, really enjoyed it. One, because yoga stretches you out before you get into rolling uh with BJJ and it gets you a little more limber. Two, it helps you kind of center yourself and let go of everything instead of just hopping right into fight mode. And I found through doing that, like it did, it helped a lot. Um, and it was helping with a lot of that anxiety. I still had problems with like when we got to the part where we had to practice hand-to-hand combat, where we were working with weapons or whatever that I had some just really bad flashbacks, I was having bad nightmares and dreams about stuff that in my past, and I was like, this is I think where all of this resides. And kind of working through all of that. And I I suffered through it, I struggled through it, or whatever else, but I made it through. But it kind of was like, okay, I'm I'm done. Like, I think I'm done with this part of it or whatever. Um I'm more comfortable with being able to be in public with you in scenarios and like they teach you the discipline of that. It's like now you're moving me out of my head and it being into reactions to being like, okay, I can recognize the thing that's gonna happen before it's not just gonna happen to me and I'm gonna respond and things are gonna be bad. So it gave me a little more confidence that like, hey, I know that I can handle this, but now I've been trained in other techniques that are less deadly, and I know what to look for before those things happen because civilian training is very different than military training. Right. So that helped alleviate a lot of that, and then it started turning and looking inward to other things around that, like how my work is going. And I noticed I was always very stressed. So I looked at my smoking and I got the little app for my watch, and I was watching my heart rates, and like my God, I got to the point where I was just chain smoking all day long to be able to get through stuff because there were just, you know, with business, there are certain challenges with leadership to where, you know, you're trying to help develop people that not everybody is always willing to invest in. Right. Right. And there's political capital that you need to gain in order to take the chance to invest in other people. And I wanted to invest in more people than I had political capital for. Um I think the more we went out with our friends, especially when we finally went to like the big thing in Miami, uh, I let go. I started being honest and opening up about what was happening in in the inside and where I was struggling with it. And there was a lot of challenges with like not wanting to be alive anymore, not wanting to, you know, deal with a lot of the things that's going on because I'm like, I just want to help people. And it feels like every situation I'm in and everything that I do, there are lots of people who want help, but other people who are in the position to help but don't want to, and just like treat it written off because it's already been a problem, so they don't want to deal with the problem anymore.

Fear Breaks Through Connection With Austin

Heather 47:20

So I remember when we were in Miami, it was one of the nights we were there and we were in bed at night, and you had started opening up and talking to me about it. And when, you know, oh, you know, I'll definitely have Andrew put up a trigger warning for sure for people who are experiencing those kinds of feelings and emotions that uh it's not easy to express when you are feeling uh in a place where you're rather you're you'd be more willing to take your life than to l continue to live the life that you have. And I had no idea that you were feeling that. And it scared me because as close as we are, and as much as I knew you, like I didn't know these things, and that it scared me that you were able to conceal that from me and I not know it. And then you know, it's a terrifying feeling because you don't know what can happen, and and so many people just end up pulling the trigger, and it is it was completely took me aback, and I was like, whatever we have to do, whatever it is, whatever we have to do, and you know, and you were like, okay, but still it was kind of like okay, well, I I opened up and I shared it, but uh you really weren't willing to do this is the life that you're already living.

Sean 48:53

Unwinding from that is very difficult because it's very spaghetti, right? It wasn't just that that was tied into trauma from the military things that I had been denying for years and years and years about having to carry because of the trauma of being a child and being raised, where it's like most men are it's like you hold this inside and I'm not an impulsive person in the you know, like one day I'm just gonna I'll be gone kind of thing or whatever. So I felt like I had this under control. It's just I'm dealing with this feeling more and more frequently to the point where like this is a primary theme in my life now, to where I can't have valuable relationships with other people. Uh and you you got 30-something people at work that depend on you to be there for them, to support them, to literally position them to be their best. And by the end of the day, there's nothing left of you because you're constantly defending their right to find their best with people who aren't invested in them the way that you are. Um, and you know, after so many days, the well runs dry, and you're kind of like, I don't know what to do. I'm just broken at this point, and I'm just crying out for somebody to to give me a method of how I'm supposed to feel this well to make it to the next day kind of thing. Um, because I care and I love so much, I can't stop this, but I recognize that it's not sustainable. So you're stuck in this loop and you don't know what to do. So asking for help is a good step, but it doesn't solve the or alleviate the problem.

Heather 50:28

It doesn't. And I remember after we got back from Miami, you know, you because now that you've shared and we started talking about it more, you're like, I've been praying, I've been asking God, like please help me do whatever it takes to help me to not feel this way, to help me into a different space, and like you crying out to God for those things. And when um when the phone call came and that day happened and you and you were let go. You know, it took us, I mean, I don't know how long it took us for us to really be like, oh right. I think it was even after we got here, when we after we moved back to Texas, where you look back and you really saw I'm like, oh, all of these things that have happened that feel so terrible. We look back and we're like, oh, that was God answering your prayer. Right.

Sean 51:22

Because of how deep that it was. Right. Those small nudges and those small shifts made my God, the all the difference and everything. Like, cause when you're there, you don't feel like I can come out from under this anymore. I mean, it took I mean, what's we're two and a half years in to that, and I've had other work that's kept us going, and I've had some very interesting jobs or whatever to get there or whatever, and I'm super appreciative because some of them have been ultimately very fulfilling despite low paying, right? That's the thing. But I see how those small nudges helped me alleviate some of those things, right? Because sometimes we feel the way that we do, and we feel like we're so stuck with this that we're thinking there has to be a specific way to be able to get there. But with the right knobs being turned, we find a way out of it in a way we didn't know. I mean, who would have ever thought that being an Uber driver would have been the most satisfying job I had ever had my entire life? That I look forward to that more than I've ever in anything I've ever done.

Heather 52:30

Yeah.

Sean 52:30

Uh and all the accomplishments I have.

Testimony Over Outcomes And Closing

Heather 52:32

Yeah. So it that was that was crazy because when you lost your job, like all of the stuff with Ana and her boyfriend finally had resolved itself, or he had already moved out right after you lost your job. You know, you we're trying to, we're scrambling to figure out what to do. You have a severance, so we know we're we're gonna be carried for a little while. And so, and then just giving you the time to figure out what you wanted to do and where we were gonna go from here, right? And then um that next year comes around, 2024, and we're like, okay, we're coming up on the end of this severance, like, what's gonna happen? Right. And you had started working with our friends a little bit more, and but that was temporary, right? And so we're getting to finally to the place where things are getting tight. Things were getting tight, things are becoming more stressful in a new, different way. And we're like, okay, we gotta get out of the house we're in. Our lease was coming up. We're like, we cannot renew a lease here. The rent was astronomical, and so we're looking for somewhere else to go that's a lot cheaper. And we have the conversation with Ana, like, now is your time. Now is your time to fly, little one. Like, you've got to go because we you're gonna have to start taking care of yourself because we can't do it. Right. And and that really was a catalyst that pushes her into the life that she now has. Like it's just so wild to look back and see what God was doing through the whole thing, right? At every step of the way, when at the times it didn't feel that way.

Sean 53:58

Well, I think that theme of obedience keeps coming up over and over and over again that even when we don't feel excited about or we don't always want to do the things because if my most of the time when God is directing us to do things, there are gonna be things that we're like, I don't want to do that. Yeah, right. Very many, very few times I've ever been told stuff it's like, yeah, man, let's go, I'm ready, right? Yeah, it no, it well for us it was that continue obedience. Uh you're covered in the grace of and the mercy of where you're gonna be going and what you're going to be doing.

Heather 54:26

Well, you know, you could forward you all you've in that vein, you feel a different kind of pressure, right? You feel a different kind of pr pressure, and it's and it's less pressure to perform, which is really interesting to me because coming from the life where you're making a lot of money, you're working these corporate jobs, you have all this responsibility, you know, you there's a there's a pressure to perform. But once that's removed, the pressure that you feel now is that is to somehow find a way to alleviate that feeling for the rest of your life. That's how it felt for the both of us. And, you know, I'm kicking into high gear, going, okay, I have been working on things for years now. I have been putting things together, working. I have been working on creating this business and where I've had this culmination of all of these things. And you're just like, well, when are you when are you gonna, when are you gonna? And I'm like, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, well, you know, what am I gonna do? And during this time, we had finally found a another little apartment that we moved into, which we absolutely loved.

Sean 55:30

But it was great there.

Heather 55:31

It was great, it short-lived, but it was great. Um, Ana had moved and she had gotten her own place and she moved halfway across the country to New Mexico. And so here we are again by ourselves, and we're in a whole different space. You had decided to Uber drive. So, yes, you were Uber driving. You were really enjoying it, and it gave me a lot of extra time alone because you worked at night. So I went and started taking, I took a bunch of psychology classes. I started taking all these courses and, you know, building up even my own repertoire of information and my knowledge on stuff because I had really seen the path on which I wanted to go. I'm like, this, I I've already known it, but I really want to step out into it. And I was building my own course to really help people. So I was like, how do I do this? And I remember I joined um, I joined um an academy that I worked with, Amy Porterfield. And when I'm doing all of this, it was really weird because I'm taking this to learn how to build my own course. And um, through that, she had like this little thing. She's like, oh, well, like if you're gonna do this, then you gotta have some type of like thing out in the world. Like I didn't, I don't post on social media, I don't have a newsletter, I don't have a blog, I don't have a podcast. Like I didn't do anything. Like nobody knew who I was.

Sean 56:48

Yes.

Heather 56:48

Like I'm nobody, I'm just some chick in a house somewhere. I'm just one in a billion the people. And and they're like, so you know, if you have things that you want to put out in the world, people need to know who you are and they need to know what you have. And and I'm like, okay. Um, so I had called Andrew, I'd like messaged all the kids, and I'm like, okay, so if I'm gonna do this, if I'm gonna do like an a weekly email, do I do a newsletter? Do I start a blog? You know, do I do a podcast? And all of them were like, hands down, start a podcast, mom. And I'm like, okay, why? Why would I start a podcast? And they're like, because you're your best when you're speaking. They're like, you are your best when you're having the chats with people, when you're having those conversations. And that's where I'm you connect to people.

Sean 57:36

And this is what we've always done. Right. And it is.

Heather 57:39

It's all I've been spending my whole life doing is having these connections and conversations with people, especially in the past, like at that point, 10 years. So I was like, all right, okay, well, how do I do that? And so, you know, Andrew being the audio genius that he is, he's like, okay, well, you just need these couple of things and you're just gonna do it, right? And I'm like, oh, okay. And because my mind at the time was so focused on like, I'm gonna just do this little thing over here so people know who I am, so I can put this out. Because my focus was goal, was this over here. When I started the podcast, it seemed like a very easy thing to do for me. I didn't have a lot of thoughts wrapped up into it. Like while recording was difficult, once you kind of get into the groove, I got better and easier at that. And I'm like, oh, okay, I'll just do this and I'll put it out in the world, right? And I wasn't, I didn't have all these thoughts and feelings about the podcast, right? Because I my my thoughts and feelings were attached to this thing over here. This is just, this is a little side thing that's just kind of attached, right? And lo and behold, you know, I get halfway down the road and I'm like, oh, oh, this is what I'm doing. The the podcast is what I'm doing, and watching how God kind of orchestrates all these little things, even to help me get out of my own head. And I didn't realize that until later down the road. And now the podcast is huge, it's grown, and now I'm on video, which is I'm still getting used to. Um, you know, and now having it's changed formats a little bit and having people come on and having conversations and sharing stories, which is something that I'm extremely, extremely passionate about is having that is having people to share their life and share the parts and the pieces of them that we struggle with, that we walk with, that we've come through, that we've overcome, um, and how important that really is. And so I started that, your Uber driving, and we realized very quickly that it's not going to keep us, right? It's not gonna be enough, it's not gonna be enough. And I remember I had even tried to take a job, and then that was short-lived, you know, I was hostessing at a restaurant, and we're just like, it's not gonna be enough, and it was hard because here we are. I in my mind, here we are again, right? We're losing our home, right? And we didn't even have the money to lose our home. Like, how how is that possible, right? You've been out of a job for over a year. We are preparing to have to put everything we own in storage that we can't afford. Um, and then going and realizing to put that much stuff that we do have in storage is like five, six hundred dollars a month. And you're like, oh, I don't, you know, okay, so you're gonna Uber drive just so we can pay the rent on our storage, right? And then where do we go? Where do we go from here? And we didn't have anywhere to go. You know, and I know a lot of people have heard a lot of this story up to this point, like after this point, because if you've been with me since when I started this, is where we are at, right? We're reaching the part of my story to where I actually started the podcast. So if you hear a lot of it, you're gonna hear a lot of that story. And you're trying to find your way, I'm trying to find my way. You know, we move in with Andrew and his fiance are soon to be fiancé. They weren't even engaged at the time. So we move in with them and we're living on their living room floor on an air mattress. Now, if you have never lived on an air mattress in the living room floor of your 22-year-old, I suggest you all try it because it's just the most wonderful thing ever. I mean, uh, I'm being facetious if you can't tell. It was in our it was a nightmare. And it wasn't that it was bad living with them. I love being with them, of course. It was that, like, oh my gosh, here I am, right? We're in our 40s, we're living on the floor in the living room of our 23-year-old son. Like, what has our life come to? How did we get here? Like, how did we go from up here to down here? Like, that is how it felt. It's very much how it felt. And then we had um went to Georgia for Thanksgiving. Now, what a what a time that was because my um my uncle, my aunt and uncle were coming to visit um the family and having like this really mini reunion at Thanksgiving. We had not seen them in eight years. We hadn't seen them since 2017, and it had been longer for other people, but like all of us being together, it had been 10 years, almost 10 years, nine, 10 years before we had all been together. And my uncle at the time had just gotten out of rehab. You know, he had um he had been dealing with his alcoholism for like 20 plus years. Um, and he was a very functioning alcoholic, right? So, but there were some culmination of things in their life that had just really kind of reached a peak that had sent him, and he was like, Yeah, I need to get help. And he went to rehab. He had just recently been out. We come there, we're all visiting. I remember they actually called because we weren't gonna even be able to afford to go home. And they called and were like, Can we help you get here? Can we pay you gas money to come? Will you come? And and we were like, Well, of course we'll come. And so we did, you know, and we were so grateful for that. And then we come back, we're preparing, which is so weird because we're pre we're packing the house up to move into Andrew's apartment. And I get a phone call, and it is my uncle and my aunt, and they're like, Hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, Oh, I'm actually I'm packing my house up. What are you doing? And they're like, Well, where are you going? And I'm like, Well, um, and so I was kind of explaining the situation because we were not telling everybody at Thanksgiving that we were really in this state, like they knew we didn't have a lot of money, but we were, I mean, we were praying, we were praying so hard that something would happen that we would not have to give up our place, right? And it just we ran it right up into the wire. And we tried, you know, we did our best, and um, but it just wasn't what was meant to be. But they during that time, they were like, well, you know, we've been here talking, and my uncle apparently had been in his office, and it just like I was sitting there, he was writing and he had been praying. He goes, and I just looked up and I was like, Oh my gosh, like I think Sean and Heather need to be here. I think we need to ask them to come here. Now, this is wild, right? Because they don't really know that we're going through this. So why in the world would two grown people just want to get up and come and move into your house?

Sean 1:04:37

And out of all your family, they were the ones that we had spent the least amount of time with. Yes.

Heather 1:04:42

We had spent the least amount of time with them. Um, you know, we don't really I know them, but you don't know them at all.

Sean 1:04:48

I think I only seen them two, three times.

Heather 1:04:50

Yeah, in our entire relationship. So they had called and they had asked us. They were like, I really feel like God was leading us to invite y'all here. And I'm not sure why. But he my uncle was like, I feel like it it was a multifaceted situation. And of course, immediately some of the things he was saying was completely resonating with some stuff with me. And I was like, Oh my gosh. It was uh one of those moments that was happening to me, like the flower pot situation happened to you. And I was like, oh no. Like I can feel, I could feel God speaking again, and I'm like, mm-mm, I don't want to do that, right? Um, and they were like, Well, we would love to offer up our home to you. We have two rooms y'all can stay in. And I'm like, well, that's funny because we just lost our house and we don't have anywhere to go. And they were like, Wow, right. And and he's like, Well, pray about it, think about it, and let us know. And of course, you know, I remember trying to talk to you about it, and you're like, I can't think about that right now because you were packing and moving stuff out of the house. And so we just kind of let it lie for a couple of days. And then finally, when we were settled in Day Andrews, you know, I brought it up again and he was like, Well. What what do you think about that? And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I didn't want to move. I'm like, I didn't want to lose my home. I don't want to move out of Florida now that we're finally here and I love it so much. And I don't want to leave Andrew. I'm thinking, I just got him. I just got him and I just got into a space where I'm close to him and where I'm seeing him all the time. I'm not leaving him. You know, and I'm like, and I know God's not asking me to do that. Oh, little did we know, right? And Christmas comes, you know, and the conversation is constantly back and forth, you know, and and we know, like we're having those conversations. We know this is what we're gonna have to do. We know that this is where God, yeah, it's terminal. We're it's happening. We know God's taking us, we know he's asking us to go here, and I am struggling. So after again, like here I am, I'm all angry again, and you're just kind of like, well, this is what God says, and this is what we're doing. I love that you have such a calm resolve about it, and I'm just constantly like fighting the whole way through. And, you know, uh, new year comes. Andrew and Sam get engaged, you know, now they're gonna be starting their whole life, and I'm thinking, well, we can't just be living here. Like, what does that even look like? They don't even have space for us to be here. And I'm no, and knowing, knowing that we're moving, but still trying to deny it. And I remember I'm like, okay, God, I need a sign. I need a sign. Like, I'm not just going there. I'm not just gonna do that. I'm not just like this is a big deal for me. Like moving back to Texas, like when I left Texas, I was like, I'm not going back. And um, you know, I have a I have a, you know, just like when I went to back to Georgia, I was like, I'm never moving back to Georgia because I got a lot of trauma there and I didn't want to move back and remind myself of all of that. And I felt the same way about coming back to Texas. And I was like, no. And, you know, I asked God for a sign. He gave me one, and I felt like that wasn't good enough. And I was like, okay. And I remember praying again. I'm like, okay, well, I need something a little more concrete. And like even asking you, I'm like, well, what are you hearing? You know, and you're like, I'm not really hearing nothing, right? Like, I just like I know that this is what God's asking us to do, so we're just gonna do it. And I'm like, oh no, no, I need like full-on confirmation from you, right? And you're like, I don't have that. And I remember I remember our my cousin had called and she was talking to me, and I was like, oh, no, that definitely is my sign that this is not the right deal, right? Because there was a lot of stuff going on here, and I'm like, nope, I don't want to deal with any of that. And then when I had talked to you about that conversation, that's like when you it clicks with you, and God's like, yes, right, gives you the confirmation. And I'm like, what? How is this possible? And and I'm like, and now you are gung-ho, right? Now it's like everything starts getting put in motion, right? And I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you're looking up you hauls, you're you're talking to my uncle Brian on the phone, you're you're having these conversations, and I'm going, Oh no. And I'm struggling and I'm having anxiety. And I remember, I mean, this was just like a week before we left. And I was laying in the bed one morning, and I had woken up, but I was still like half asleep. And I just prayed in my head, and I'm like, God, if this is what we're supposed to do, I'm like, this is too big for me to have to walk away from Andrew, to walk away from this life. I thought you had brought us to, right? Or that you had brought us to. Why now? And I'm gonna need a yes. Like, yes, this is what you're supposed to do, Heather. Like, yes, this is what you're supposed to do. And I'm like, I'm gonna need a yes. And I remember praying that in my head, and I had been kind of half awake. I remember I fell back asleep. This is crazy to me. When I woke back up, I look over, Sean's still asleep, and of course I pick up my phone as one does, right? And I start scrolling. And you know, I open Instagram, is you know how like you open it and like you have the instant reels right there. And it's not turned on, I have it all the way turned down. So I'm just reading, you know, what it says. And it's this reel of this guy, and he's standing in a recording booth, and he has a script, and now I can't hear it, right? So I'm just watching it. And he's standing in front of the mic and he's got his script, and he's looking at the people out there, and he says something like, Okay, just that. And they're like, just read the script. And he looks down, and when it pans to the script, there's only one word on the paper, and the word is yes. And I immediately am like, oh, you gotta be kidding me. There, and I thought, I I literally out loud was like, God, there's no way this is happening to me. And I look back down and I watch him do continue this reel, and it just was like, all you could see was like, Yes. Like he just kept saying it. And they're kind of like, um, yeah, that's nice, but could you say it with a little more enthusiasm? And then he was like, Yes, right. And then, and he's like, Okay, well, that was great. But and they just kept having him redo it over and over again, and he just kept saying, Yes, yes, yes.

Sean 1:11:16

They're like, maybe without the script this time.

Heather 1:11:17

And they're like, if you could just say it without the script, like you don't even need that. And he's like, right, it's just one word, don't need it, right? And then he's like, Yeah, okay. And then he goes to say it, like, and he checks the script again to make sure it says yes. And then he was like, Yes. And then he gets so frustrated with them continually asking him that he just starts saying yes, like over and over and over and over again in different ways. And I was like, Okay, I hear you. Got it. Oh my god, that was great. I got it. I remember when you woke up, I was like, waiting, as you do.

Sean 1:11:52

Wake up so I can tell you this.

Heather 1:11:54

Wake up. And then I tell him, and he was like, and he's like, Well, how many, how many signs do you need? He's like, if you ask again, like this is on you, right?

Sean 1:12:02

Yeah, I don't want to be part of the punishment that comes.

Heather 1:12:04

Literally, in a week later, we found ourselves pulling into the driveway here in Houston, Texas. Right. And the journey that it has been here, there is no doubt that God called us here. There is no doubt that we were brought here for a reason. There, and when we look back now and we see what God is doing here, there's no doubt that he had his hand orchestrating everything from the beginning, from the, I mean, from the beginning of our relationship and the things that have transpired. But like when he pulled us out of Georgia, that was all lining us up for this time, for this time to what he's doing in me, what he's doing in my work, what he's doing in you and in your work, and then what it has done in our family. Like it, it's just mind-blowing, right? Like my uncle was, we were able to be with them during his whole entire first year of recovery and watching the healing that's taken place, watching the growth that has taken place with all of us, and being able to be that support for them while they have been that support for us, and has given you the time to heal and work through so many things of yourself without having the pressure of actually working. Right.

Sean 1:13:14

Well, and the work that I did have was like incredibly rewarding because instead of focusing on the corporate job where you had to do the dance and play the game and climb the ladder and all the other good stuff that comes with it, um, I got to explore the things I was interested in. I got to start businesses, I got to try different things, and it wasn't about success or failure anymore. It was about the exploration of all of it, yes, discovering, like reconnecting. It's kind of like uh I remember when I used to coach all the time, I'd talk to people, and everyone's always so been out of shape about like maybe this isn't what I'm supposed to do, you know. I'm really good at this, and everybody is really quick to tell you about all of their talents and their skills. And the thing that I found common amongst almost every client that I would talk to, whether they were older, younger, retired, rich, CEOs to engineers on teams, it didn't matter. They never thought that maybe if I just write down everything that I'm good at on a piece of paper, and then I go find things that interest me that require these skills, that maybe it's not that this isn't the right job for me. Maybe it's this is the wrong application of the skills that I have, right? You know, people are always trying to cram themselves that square peg into a round hole thing when all around them is tons of square square holes that fit them perfectly. It's just they haven't realized that they don't have to follow a formula in order to find the things that they want. And that's easy to say when you're in a job and you it you're required to have it. But I go back and I think about our entire story, even of where we started today, and I look at, you know, the message I was given obedience. Right? Then we get there, and the death of ginger is like letting go and opening up, and then starting to feel this like resurgence of depression and challenges that I had had since the military. For 20 years, I've been carrying it, and it's like you just put on a brave face, but stressors build up over time, but it's like giving way to that, right? And being obedient to yourself and saying, like, hey, I can't do this, I need to seek more than myself to be able to solve this. Then I think about like Andrew coming and watching Andrew go through all of that, and it's like, well, if he can do it, I can do it, type thing, or whatever else. And then having this brand new relationship with him from the obedience of sharing how I feel, not just trying to navigate things the way I've always navigated. And then even with like we we kind of glossed over it, but like it was a really pivotal moment in my life was when I went with Austin and all the stuff was happening with the house, right? There's a lot of details there, I won't go into it. But when I went with him, I got to see a side of my son that I hadn't got to know up until that point.

Heather 1:16:08

Yeah, which we did not talk about, like um right before we had moved to Sarasota, you got to go on a tiger cruise with Austin in the Navy, and that was a huge thing for you.

Sean 1:16:18

Well, and he had talked about this before he even signed up for the Navy when he was contemplating the Navy, and he had always been like, Dad, you know, they have this thing called a Tiger Cruise, and if that was to ever happen, you know, I'd want you to go or whatever, and he wanted you to go too, but you're like not about boats or whatever.

Heather 1:16:33

Well, they also only let one of us go.

Sean 1:16:35

Yeah, and I and I was like, you know, if it ever happens, I'll be there. I don't care what it is. And it came at a pivotal moment because I had just been promoted to VP. And like the day they were going to announce this new role was the day that I was going to be getting on the plane to go get on the ship with him for two weeks of going out to Hawaii and then coming back to San Diego. So going there was a big, big moment for me because I got to see my son and his element, who he was, living the life he had built, the choices he had made and what he wanted. Like he was letting me into his life, not just me being a part of his life because he lived with me. So me getting in his life type thing or whatever. And uh at that time when I was struggling with the things I was struggling with, I was still going through that and trying to find my place and making other decisions, like with the house, like how all that drug out and everything that happened with that. But he made me brave in a way that I had never been able to feel brave before, like being scared of heights or whatever, and then going out there with him. And I had never been with another human being before that made me feel brave enough to conquer a fear that I had so that I didn't miss out on experiencing them. And it changed every everything for me when I had that experience, that week or two of time with him, from just one getting to spend the time with him, but two his presence making me brave to conquer things I didn't think were possible, changed the trajectory my entire life, and he never even knew it. Right. And I think what the power of your children, like what Andrew did for me, leaning in to who he was and that music that he made healed me in ways that he'll never know. And then being there with Austin on the ship and climbing to the top of the largest carrier in the freaking fleet, man, and being at the tippy top as high as you're allowed to climb on these things, hundreds of feet in the air, right? Not mentioning how hundreds of feet off the water the ship already is at the deck height, right? And the bravery that the courage he made me feel by being there, like watching him and just how nonchalant he was about it. Like it was just another day in his life, and you know, dad's always wanted to be like, we don't show fear because we don't want our kids to be scared, but that all fell away. And because it wasn't a thing for him, I was so locked in the moment of the time I was with him and not wanting to miss a moment of getting to see his world and who he had become that it fell away. And it would it unlocked something in me. It's like, oh, well, you know, overcoming fear is less about like the exposure therapy and more of like what is the moment trying to teach us? And it changed everything for me.

Heather 1:19:22

I love how I love how you how you said that about about fear, right? It's not about the exposure of it or you know, like people say, white knuckling certain things to get through it. But that certainly was on the client. But that what what broke a fear in you was connection.

Sean 1:19:40

Yes.

Heather 1:19:40

Like that is that's incredible. Well said. That's incredible.

Sean 1:19:45

Yeah, the love that I had, the appreciation of being given the opportunity to see his world in his view, because I feel like he's traveled our whole life and he saw the world through our eyes because of the decisions we've made and the things we've done. And now I get to see it based on the decisions that he's made. I get to see his silliness, I get to see his seriousness, I get to see him do his job and be proud of the things he does. I get to see every aspect of him from the time that we go to sleep late at night to the time we wake up early in the morning. I'm so grateful for that. And even the circumstance that happened around it with the house and like deciding whether we were gonna get it or not, and the rift that that created or whatever, like I'm so grateful all of those things happened because I think one, it taught me something. Two, that obedience of giving yourself over to this moment to realize that things weren't as they seemed, right? And what that taught us about our relationships that we had with him and his wife and everything else that was going on, it allowed them to open up to express to us how they were feeling about things that were going on in their life. I think was the beginning of a lot of healing in our lives that we didn't even know we were hurt from. Yeah. I think it was a lot of healing for them as well, like him getting to share his life with somebody for the things he got to create, her getting to expose herself to our life and what that dynamic looked like in her relationship of the very first relationship that was really important to her. Right. Like all of those things are very profound, but at the moment we're wildly painful to go through. We're fearful, very uncomfortable, right? But like comfort is the cancer of growth, right? So like I've always tried to think about things like the things I fear the most, the things I don't want to do, the things I'm the most unhappy with, those are the things I run toward because I gain the most from that. I live the most life that way. You're adventurous that way. I experience the depth more that way. And then I think about the house and the experience with our friends and everything they opened up and all that we got to experience and how that opened the door for a client that we had and the experience they've had and the life that they have now because of that. And I think of this wonderful orchestration of all the things that God does in our lives, and I see them as small, painful moments that built to something wondrous that had I not been willing to step in faith and obedience to those small painful moments, would not be able to experience the freedom that I have now. And I listen to your podcast every week. I've only missed one in the entire time of all of the episodes that you've had. And um I think about all those painful moments that you've lived your whole life and how every one of them have been a step to your freedom. And now you're using that experience to go out here and talk to an audience in a world where it's hard to connect because this is a one-way conversation. We're sharing what we have, and we're hoping that will draw everyone in enough that we can have a conversation. This isn't about pushing out content and creating things, it's about sharing an experience that says, hey, this is how we want to establish the connection. Now, how can we carry the dialogue?

Heather 1:22:53

It's very much so. I you know, I was thinking about it again this morning. We had that conversation in the car yesterday, and you talking now reminds me of that. It's like I've always really struggled like creating a creating a business, right? Because I want to do so many things. I have so many things in me that I want to share. There's so many things I want to create and I want to put out in the world, but I have such an issue with the money, right?

Sean 1:23:14

Why is it gonna why we gotta worry about making money?

Heather 1:23:16

And it's like, well, why do I have to make money? Well, because things cost me money, right? Like it costs me a quite a bit of money to do the things that I am doing. And I don't have money coming in. You know, I have I have my coaching clients, but but that doesn't really pay for what I'm doing. And I have stuff that I want to, I want to get this thing is I want to give everything I do away for free because in my mind and in my heart, I'm like, if there, if I was called to do something and God has called me to share, I have experienced this life that has been tragic in so many ways, but has been so beautiful in so many ways too. I want other people to know I'm not the only one out there. You're not the only one out there. We are all going through those tragedies of our lives every day. And that I want people to understand and I want people to know that there is hope on the other side of that, that there is something more than what this is and what it looks like, and that no matter how bad it looks, no matter how bad it feels, that you there is something more for you. I didn't ever think that there was. I always thought that if you go back and you listen, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of episodes because it is just one tragic scene to the next. And it just because that was my life. And while this series is long, it is honest, it is the truth. And I know that if you were to go out and you were to express your life in that way, it wouldn't look that different, right? And a different, it would just, you know, it's different tragedies, but the same kinds of patterns, right? And the same kinds of struggles, but that I want you to know that there is a way to come on the other side of that. There is a way to find your real true authentic self in that and to it to become something very beautiful. That something beautiful can come from all of the things that we've experienced. And, you know, that's why I said, like when I do end up eventually like having to charge things for stuff that I do create, like I, the money that people pay me for certain things, it has to be an investment, right? Like when we pay for stuff, I believe that everything that we spend money on is an investment in ourselves. And I don't want it to just be another thing. I don't want you to even come on here and listen for free if it's not helping you. I want the, I want the information that I put out in the world and the things that I give to the world to be impactful and to be an investment in somebody's life. Whether it is in your money, whether it is in your time, whether it is in your effort. I don't want to just be like, oh, well, this is this is my life and this is now it's great. I I don't want to just be like, give you a whole list of tasks and things that you can do to make life better because it's not what makes it better. It is the truth on how we get to the place to do the task that is what helps us get better. You're not gonna write down, like we talked about intentions. I'm like, you're not gonna write down three intentions and then just move about your world and your whole year change because you wrote down an intention has nothing to do with that. It is how do we get to the place to understand what an intention is, what intention really means, and what how do we actually live an intentional life? How do we connect with what that actually means for us and finding where we seek value in our life, where we seek true fulfillment, and how we use that to connect not only with the world, with other people, with ourselves, but with God. Agreed, and how we move through our life that way. And since we've been here, this is even though our world went whoop into these two tiny little rooms, everything else in our life since we've been here has expanded so greatly. God has given me the time to be still enough in my spirit that I can hear that I have been given the things that I need to put out into the world in the way in which is meant for me to do. Because it's going to reach the people that it needs to reach. And that is my goal and that is my hope. I love that. And I'm so grateful that today happened. I'm so grateful that you came and you joined me here, that you opened up, that you shared. Um you know, it's not every day that I get to sit and do my work with you, and you know how much I love that because I want to spend every waking moment with you.

Sean 1:27:38

You were saying something a minute ago, and you know, it triggered something in me, and very rarely do I have anything that's succinct of something I learned. Usually I I'm a storyteller by nature, so I love to tell stories, and I can't just like give you a point and move on unless I'm in a corporate room, and then it's still very hard for me because I want to it's also my favorite thing. I want you to know the context of it, but you were saying something. And I think one of the most powerful things that I've learned through this journey that we've had is it's not about the outcome. It's about the journey. And the reason why I say that, right, because that's a platitude people use all the time or whatever else. But I think it's it we use the wrong word. It's not about the journey, it's about the testimony. Because in trying to achieve the outcome is where the testimony is at. And if I focus on the outcome, I get one success, one failure, right? Like it's finite. It is a definitive thing that happens.

Heather 1:28:38

I've reached, I've achieved.

Sean 1:28:39

If I focus on what I learned from the testimony of trying to achieve the outcome, the outcome no longer matters. And what I learn is infinitely more because now I've learned a lot of things in the journey that just got us here, much less the time that I've had to actually reflect on what I've learned for that. But if all I was focused on was how do I get back to the good paying corporate job? How do I get back to the stable life? How do I get back to the lack of debt and you know, getting back to where the American dream is, but that outcome that I want, I'd miss all this testimony that I have. I'd miss the moments with Andrew. I'd miss the moments with Austin. I'd miss the moments with Jocelyn. I'd miss the moments with the friends that we made in Sarasota. I'd miss the moment with a friend that I have now that has been there for us in ways I would have never expected when I met him. In the most unlikely of circumstances, right? 100%. And I think about that and I was like, if I continued to have focused on the outcomes of my life, I would still be in the same place. But because now I focus on the testimony, we're making progress. We're moving forward. And that excites me.

Heather 1:29:56

What we would have missed out on if that had been only the main focus on what God has done here with us and our family here, right? It it it is very much that way.

Sean 1:30:05

And if I look at the underlying purpose in that, and I think about all these common platitudes that were towed, the inspo that you get from every scroll that you have, there is truth behind the words. But again, like you said, it's not about writing the intention. It's what did you do to enact the intention? It's that conscious activity that has to have the action that has to happen, right? Action leads to the motivation, not motivation leading to the action. So in paying attention to the testimony that we're living and to the testimony of others as we're going through it is more important than anything we're ever going to achieve because what we learn will be infinitely more useful to help us move toward where we want to be and what will truly fulfill us than ever achieving any goal that we're trying to accomplish. It's not to say the goals aren't important, it's just goals aren't the focus.

Heather 1:30:57

Agreed. Agreed. I it is um it's why I come on here every week and I tell everybody that your story matters. Right? It's not what you've done, right? And that's the thing. It's like no matter what you've done, no matter what you've experienced, no matter how bad things have looked, is that freedom is the advantage you already own. It is something that you can have. You just have to be willing to reach out and grab it. And that's all I want to be able to continue to do in my life because sometimes, you know, you have to understand it's not like, oh, we've reached this pinnacle of freedom. I have to reach out and choose freedom every single day.

Sean 1:31:39

Yes.

Heather 1:31:40

Every single day. The days still come, the challenges still come. And I'm never gonna reach the end of that.

Sean 1:31:51

Well, it's not a it's not an outcome. It's not like freedom is your testimony.

Heather 1:31:55

Freedom is your testimony, and that's the life I want to live. I want to live one of freedom. I don't want to live one of a constant sacrifice like I've done before. And that's what I want for everybody out there. That's why I'm here, that's why I do what I do, and why I will continue to do what I do. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, Sean, for coming on here and being here. I love you so much. Um, it was a pleasure having you here. Um, I look forward to come back next week because I'm gonna have a new guest on, and you're gonna hear a whole new story, and you can get rid of mine. I love you guys, and thanks for listening. Until next time, I'm gonna be able to get it.